Diskussion:Pedro Petrone
1933-34 season's data[Quelltext bearbeiten]
Previous version: Nacional Montevideo Primera División 1933/34, 30 Tore
New data: Nacional Montevideo Primera División 1933/34, 20 Spiele - 30 Tore
Source: Pedro Petrone from 11.10.2008
Verification: Total National's league matches: 27 (in 1933) + 27 (in 1934) = 54, Total National's league goals: 56 + 51 = 107.
Στέλιος Πετρουλάκης (Diskussion) 21:14, 22. Mai 2013 (CEST)
- No, sorry, that is no reliable source. Rsssf tells us nothing about the personal appearences in Primera División in that "temporadas" (seasons). And Wikipedia in other language-versions will not help to lighten up the darkness, if they aren't based on reliable sources.--Losdedos (Diskussion) 21:35, 22. Mai 2013 (CEST)
No reliable source for 30 goals either. So, both should be removed:
Nacional Montevideo Primera División 1933/34, ? Spiele - ? Tore.
Στέλιος Πετρουλάκης (Diskussion) 22:00, 22. Mai 2013 (CEST)
- Well, indeed there is no source the actual content concerning this statistics facts can be based on. But we have a piece of circumstantial evidence when you have a look at the very first edit and the connected user-comment. This is better than nothing. Nevertheless a source to proof it would be better.--Losdedos (Diskussion) 22:09, 22. Mai 2013 (CEST)
Yes, you' re right! RicciSpeziari's opening post looks rather serious and well-written (although not totally documented). But:
1) 90.205.19.219's contribution looks serious, too. Apart from completing already existing data, he added a lot of new information - he actually rewrote the whole article and over-doubled its size! I don't think he would have added imaginary numbers.
2) maybe they were both based on the same sources (although, they both didn't mention any) and RicciSpeziari had just forgot to add the information concerning 20 spiele. Please, note that he/she doesn't seem to have looked upon the post any further since its first creation, so there was no chance to find out the omission.
3) it's better to have 2 "questioned" numbers that are related to each other, than have just one on his own. Otherwise, it's better to have none.
4) to me, a ratio of 1.5 (=30/20) for a proved prolific scorer in a team that scores 2.0 (=107/54) goals per match sounds logical.
Στέλιος Πετρουλάκης (Diskussion) 23:16, 22. Mai 2013 (CEST)
- While searching i've found a source for 30 goals in 1933. There is no evidence for the number of games he played in this year. But as you can see above in this source it is also stated that he played 128 games scoring 146 goals for Nacional during his whole term at Nacional including the years 1933 and 1934.--Losdedos (Diskussion) 00:06, 23. Mai 2013 (CEST)
That's fine! In your source is also clearly stated that he still was a Charley player when Uruguay were crowned South American champions in Nov. 1924 (after their first Olympic triumph), so maybe he didn't join Nacional until early 1925. In such a case case, his first term 1924-1931 for them needs also correction. Do you know during which months the Uruguayan league was being played back then? I'll make appropriate corrections to the English Wiki, too. Thanks!
Στέλιος Πετρουλάκης (Diskussion) 00:41, 23. Mai 2013 (CEST)
- I think, it is meant, that he joins Nacional after the Olympic Games. This would fit with the information given by RSSSF here. The Uruguayan League in this time was split into two Leagues because of the "Cisma" of Uruguayan Football in these times. Therefore a part of the 1924-season was held in 1925, as i remember right. I have to look it up again.--Losdedos (Diskussion) 01:01, 23. Mai 2013 (CEST)
The guys in RSSSF have made an outstanding job, but they couldn't avoid several mistakes. For example (one of some for Charrúas I have come across) they register Pedrone as a Nacional player during the 1924 Olympics, which is obviously wrong according to Deutch Wiki and, most of all, both Nacional's sites (official and digital) that you have found. A very interesting fact is that the second site does not award him with the 1924 Uruguayan League title (just the 1933 one). This MAYBE means that he was NOT involved for them in any 1924 matches, even those that the "chisma" issue made them being delayed for 1925 (because he had already played with Charley for the same League edition, or due to a several months ban, a very common penalty back then when a player moved to a new club without the consent of his previous one).
Very strange thing: the link in ref-4 worked yesterday, although not today. It is not a site problem, as the page can be viewed outside Wiki. I tried to fix it by replacing the link, but in vain. The same problem appears when I insert it in the Greek and English version of Wiki. Curious, isn't it?
Στέλιος Πετρουλάκης (Diskussion) 12:28, 23. Mai 2013 (CEST)
- I am aware of the link fixing problem with the Nacional-sites since many months. This occures very often and i don't have a clue about the reason. Furthermore the data given by Rsssf is not without faults, I know that. But in general it's quite reliable. Concerning the games in 1924 and 1925 I will keep an eye on that in the future while researching information about uruguayan football. I intend to continue the work in this subject area.--Losdedos (Diskussion) 20:03, 23. Mai 2013 (CEST)
Good! And I will keep an eye on you for any further information you will find. Hahaha! Bye.
Στέλιος Πετρουλάκης (Diskussion) 22:51, 23. Mai 2013 (CEST)
- This needs to be explained...--Losdedos (Diskussion) 23:05, 23. Mai 2013 (CEST)
Any relevant data that you will discover, will be inserted in Greek and English version of Wiki. By me. Hope this explains my intention for the joke.
Στέλιος Πετρουλάκης (Diskussion) 00:16, 24. Mai 2013 (CEST)
- ok, so i will do my best. ;-)--Losdedos (Diskussion) 00:49, 24. Mai 2013 (CEST)
Defekte Weblinks[Quelltext bearbeiten]
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- http://www.nacionaldigital.com/idolos/Idolos/petrone.htm
- Vielleicht ist eine archivierte Version geeignet: archive.org
- Problem mit Ressource (HTTP-Statuscode 403)
- http://es.encarta.msn.com/text_961531892___0/Pedro_Petrone.html
- Vielleicht ist eine archivierte Version geeignet: webcitation.org
- Netzwerk-Fehler (6) andere Artikel, gleiche Domain